Update on that one guy!
You know, I really pride myself in having such descriptive titles.
Haha.
So, anyway, an update! Thank you all SO MUCH for praying! Our conversation pretty much ended Sunday, but it ended very well. He didn't fall to his knees and accept Christ or anything, but I wasn't expecting that at all. Hopefully though, God willing, it brought him a step closer. Basically, about halfway through the conversation I decided to REALLY pour the love on (lol!), because I didn't want him to mistake my tone for anger. I had hoped that he wouldn't, but it's sort of hard to tell tone of voice in writing! I decided I'd leave no room for imagination and make the tone as kind as I possibly could. I thanked him for asking such wonderful and important questions, and told him how much I was enjoying the opportunity to discuss this with him, and wondered at the amazing fact that even with fundamentally different beliefs, two people can have an enjoyable dialogue. Then I went on to respond to his previous post, keeping with that same tone, and responding to generalizations about Christians, taking them as personal references to myself (you say Christians are arrogant and think of everyone else who doesn't believe the same thing as less than dirt? I'm SO sorry if I've given you that impression of me! My goal is to be like Christ, and he never acted that way, and I hope that I wouldn't, either... etc.). Then it was like the "room" got a thousand times brighter. He immediately started copying my tone, and spoke with respect. After awhile, we ended the conversation, both of us thanking the other for such an enjoyable discussion, and for opening up new perspectives to each of us. I hope he got a really good dose of biblical Christianity. If he did, it would have been all God's doing. As for me, I definitely learned a lot about talking to others about my faith, especially in the realm of apologetics. I learned some of the arguments that are commonly made, and how to respond to them. I'm really interested in this now. Today I'm going to start reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, and Dad's shown me a lot of other books that I'd love to read sometime. So God used this not only to reach out to someone else, but also to instill in me a new interest!
The other guy was really the one who ended the conversation, but I sort of had the last word. I told him how much I enjoyed discussing this with him, and if he ever wanted, he should feel free to private message me over the site and continue the discussion. So keep praying, y'all! :-D
On another note, tomorrow's St. Patrick's Day! This is a truly wonderful holiday: Christian and Irish! Celtic Christianity is really beautiful, if you haven't noticed. I'm not talking about Catholics or Protestants here, I'm talking about before that. St. Patrick's time and on. They sort of came at Christianity from a different perspective. I think they really grasped the deep beauty of Christ's death and resurrection. Think of hymns like "Be Thou My Vision," one of my favorites. Have you ever stopped to listen, really listen, to the words? It is SO powerful. I can just imagine someone singing that for the first time in Ireland or Scotland. It's so Celtic, yet the themes are universal Christian themes. It is a simply beautiful hymn. As a matter of fact, I think that Celtic Christians, having grasped the beauty of their Lord and what He had done, held beauty very highly. That's why so much that they did, a lot of which we still see today—books, Celtic crosses, music, dance, all of their forms of art—is very beautiful. One of the ways they worshipped God was through beauty. I think we could learn a lot from them, really. We, as modern evangelical Christians in America, have often forgotten beauty, I think. We are content to think in beige. I have even heard the argument that we, as Christians, should keep from making things beautiful, because then we would worship the beauty itself instead of God. I disagree! I think that, if it is something we have committed to God (which should be everything), it should reflect Him and His beauty. We can worship Him THROUGH beauty, and I believe He delights in that.
Now, I do have to make a distinction between two different forms of this. First, there's worshipping him through the beauty He has made in His creation. I'll call this "natural beauty." Another kind of worship through beauty is by making or creating things ourselves, as an act of worship to Him. In this case, He's really the one doing the work through us, and we rejoice in the fact that the talents He has given us are being used for His glory. We "work at them with all our hearts," and what we end up with is something beautiful for God. Maybe it will help others to worship God, too. Maybe it will help them see Him in a way they hadn't before. This, I'll call "crafted beauty."
I guess a practical example of this would be... ahem... church buildings. *Controversial topic! * Controversial topic!* I know, but I feel like being controversial today. It's alright if you disagree, this is just my opinion. Okay, so our church. It used to be a Rec Center, I think. There's only so far you can go with that, and they've done a pretty darn good job. But I personally would have really liked it if they at least made an effort to make the worship center more beautiful. I mean, the walls are beige slabs. There's really nothing about the room that pulls on my heartstrings. Maybe it would be better if they added more greenery or something, I don't know. I think it definitely was better when they added the cross. But still, I can't understand it. Especially when you compare it to the women's upstairs bathroom. Someone donated a lot of money to the women's upstairs bathroom, and it is one of the most elegant and nicest bathrooms I've seen! But frankly, I don't care a thing about how nice the bathroom looks if the rest of the church is one big beige box. I know, I know, I'm over-exaggerating here. There's no way we could make it into Notre Dame Cathedral or anything—as a matter of fact I think that would be wrong. It took at least a lifetime to build that cathedral, and it made many people poor. There are money issues that have to be dealt with, and I know that the church is very wise with how they use their money. It might not be possible or RIGHT to put money into making the church beautiful. But I wonder if they even consider it an issue, with some of the stuff I've heard people say.
Although, on second thought, I do have to say that our church definitely does appreciate "natural beauty." There are many examples, but I'll point out one: Every Sunday in big church they have that screen that has the words to the songs on it up at the front. Last year, I think, they started putting a beautiful picture of God's creation behind the words. I think for a while now it's been a mountain peak at night (it looks suspiciously like the Grand Teton mountain in Wyoming!), surrounded by bright stars. It's really beautiful, and it's something that makes me want to praise God. I really appreciate that!!
But anyway, now you've heard my opinion! That was my big long rant, and if you stayed to hear the end, congratulations. You won. You'll get... um... something. Maybe. Uh... guys, I have to go....
Haha.
So, anyway, an update! Thank you all SO MUCH for praying! Our conversation pretty much ended Sunday, but it ended very well. He didn't fall to his knees and accept Christ or anything, but I wasn't expecting that at all. Hopefully though, God willing, it brought him a step closer. Basically, about halfway through the conversation I decided to REALLY pour the love on (lol!), because I didn't want him to mistake my tone for anger. I had hoped that he wouldn't, but it's sort of hard to tell tone of voice in writing! I decided I'd leave no room for imagination and make the tone as kind as I possibly could. I thanked him for asking such wonderful and important questions, and told him how much I was enjoying the opportunity to discuss this with him, and wondered at the amazing fact that even with fundamentally different beliefs, two people can have an enjoyable dialogue. Then I went on to respond to his previous post, keeping with that same tone, and responding to generalizations about Christians, taking them as personal references to myself (you say Christians are arrogant and think of everyone else who doesn't believe the same thing as less than dirt? I'm SO sorry if I've given you that impression of me! My goal is to be like Christ, and he never acted that way, and I hope that I wouldn't, either... etc.). Then it was like the "room" got a thousand times brighter. He immediately started copying my tone, and spoke with respect. After awhile, we ended the conversation, both of us thanking the other for such an enjoyable discussion, and for opening up new perspectives to each of us. I hope he got a really good dose of biblical Christianity. If he did, it would have been all God's doing. As for me, I definitely learned a lot about talking to others about my faith, especially in the realm of apologetics. I learned some of the arguments that are commonly made, and how to respond to them. I'm really interested in this now. Today I'm going to start reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, and Dad's shown me a lot of other books that I'd love to read sometime. So God used this not only to reach out to someone else, but also to instill in me a new interest!
The other guy was really the one who ended the conversation, but I sort of had the last word. I told him how much I enjoyed discussing this with him, and if he ever wanted, he should feel free to private message me over the site and continue the discussion. So keep praying, y'all! :-D
On another note, tomorrow's St. Patrick's Day! This is a truly wonderful holiday: Christian and Irish! Celtic Christianity is really beautiful, if you haven't noticed. I'm not talking about Catholics or Protestants here, I'm talking about before that. St. Patrick's time and on. They sort of came at Christianity from a different perspective. I think they really grasped the deep beauty of Christ's death and resurrection. Think of hymns like "Be Thou My Vision," one of my favorites. Have you ever stopped to listen, really listen, to the words? It is SO powerful. I can just imagine someone singing that for the first time in Ireland or Scotland. It's so Celtic, yet the themes are universal Christian themes. It is a simply beautiful hymn. As a matter of fact, I think that Celtic Christians, having grasped the beauty of their Lord and what He had done, held beauty very highly. That's why so much that they did, a lot of which we still see today—books, Celtic crosses, music, dance, all of their forms of art—is very beautiful. One of the ways they worshipped God was through beauty. I think we could learn a lot from them, really. We, as modern evangelical Christians in America, have often forgotten beauty, I think. We are content to think in beige. I have even heard the argument that we, as Christians, should keep from making things beautiful, because then we would worship the beauty itself instead of God. I disagree! I think that, if it is something we have committed to God (which should be everything), it should reflect Him and His beauty. We can worship Him THROUGH beauty, and I believe He delights in that.
Now, I do have to make a distinction between two different forms of this. First, there's worshipping him through the beauty He has made in His creation. I'll call this "natural beauty." Another kind of worship through beauty is by making or creating things ourselves, as an act of worship to Him. In this case, He's really the one doing the work through us, and we rejoice in the fact that the talents He has given us are being used for His glory. We "work at them with all our hearts," and what we end up with is something beautiful for God. Maybe it will help others to worship God, too. Maybe it will help them see Him in a way they hadn't before. This, I'll call "crafted beauty."
I guess a practical example of this would be... ahem... church buildings. *Controversial topic! * Controversial topic!* I know, but I feel like being controversial today. It's alright if you disagree, this is just my opinion. Okay, so our church. It used to be a Rec Center, I think. There's only so far you can go with that, and they've done a pretty darn good job. But I personally would have really liked it if they at least made an effort to make the worship center more beautiful. I mean, the walls are beige slabs. There's really nothing about the room that pulls on my heartstrings. Maybe it would be better if they added more greenery or something, I don't know. I think it definitely was better when they added the cross. But still, I can't understand it. Especially when you compare it to the women's upstairs bathroom. Someone donated a lot of money to the women's upstairs bathroom, and it is one of the most elegant and nicest bathrooms I've seen! But frankly, I don't care a thing about how nice the bathroom looks if the rest of the church is one big beige box. I know, I know, I'm over-exaggerating here. There's no way we could make it into Notre Dame Cathedral or anything—as a matter of fact I think that would be wrong. It took at least a lifetime to build that cathedral, and it made many people poor. There are money issues that have to be dealt with, and I know that the church is very wise with how they use their money. It might not be possible or RIGHT to put money into making the church beautiful. But I wonder if they even consider it an issue, with some of the stuff I've heard people say.
Although, on second thought, I do have to say that our church definitely does appreciate "natural beauty." There are many examples, but I'll point out one: Every Sunday in big church they have that screen that has the words to the songs on it up at the front. Last year, I think, they started putting a beautiful picture of God's creation behind the words. I think for a while now it's been a mountain peak at night (it looks suspiciously like the Grand Teton mountain in Wyoming!), surrounded by bright stars. It's really beautiful, and it's something that makes me want to praise God. I really appreciate that!!
But anyway, now you've heard my opinion! That was my big long rant, and if you stayed to hear the end, congratulations. You won. You'll get... um... something. Maybe. Uh... guys, I have to go....
2 Comments:
At 3/16/2005 6:29 PM, frisbeegurl said…
Awesome post Rache, and I completely agree with you about the church, there is only one problem, not everyone would think in that way... I could see a lot of people merely braggin about how beautiful our church is.. So yeah, I agree though, but at the same time, I'm glad they didn't. Personally I'd rather have an ugly church so that people won't get all proud of the beauty on the inside... Yeah so I just completely contradicted myself.. hehe but ohh well..
And you had so many good points in that post girlie!! You're awesome!!! And I'll have to say, I'm soo happy for you!! You seemed to handle that guy really well and stuff!! Of course hehe I know it really wasn't you.. but God did some GREAT things through you, is what I'm trying to say hehe!!
Luv ya girl!!
Sara
At 3/16/2005 10:35 PM, Herohtar said…
Hey, the title of that one post that you wrote that one time on that one day was really awesome! ;-D
I'm so glad your discussion ended on a good note; rule #1 of debating, stay civil or you won't get anywhere. It sounds like you did that very well.
I'm sure he really saw the love of God shining through you, and hopefully it brought him closer to the truth. I will continue praying for him. It will be interesting to see if he ever contacts you again...
Hmm... I really liked your church building. I thought what they'd done with it was really cool; it's a lot better than ours. Lol, women's bathrooms are *always* over-decorated, nothing strange there. ;-)
Well, I think I've typed enough here, although there's a lot I left unsaid. lol, I should have warned you Rachel; if you write a really long post I'll probably write a really long comment in response. :-D
Now, let me see if I have any comments to leave on your other post, heh.
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